PDA

View Full Version : Good car rental place out of LA



chunky
17-04-2008, 01:02 AM
Near airport preferabbly. Is there any recommendations?

BrumbyJack
17-04-2008, 05:31 AM
I used Alamo in 88, 89 & 91. They were excellent then, no idea how they are now.

kalkite
17-04-2008, 06:33 AM
ive used alamo last year massive massive selection too, reasonable price too. think about 320 for the week which included insurance, medium sized car.

skijacski
17-04-2008, 02:58 PM
Chunks, here is the link for the cheapest that I have found.

http://www.carrentalexpress.com/

Xena
17-04-2008, 04:03 PM
NOT Thrifty - bloomin Mexican car washers stole my camera out of the glove box! Went back within an hour.....GOOOONE, never to be seen again!

karen97
17-04-2008, 05:05 PM
Dollar or Alamo. I have used both

Polaris
17-04-2008, 05:50 PM
Another tick for Alamo here

John Deere
17-04-2008, 09:13 PM
What about the one Paedde uses??? Can't remember the name.

John Deere
17-04-2008, 09:16 PM
Scratch that, I checked my archives, he uses some place in Germany to book.

chunky
17-04-2008, 10:12 PM
Alamo have the size car we need. A dodge durango. Also thanks for link skijacski.

Xena
17-04-2008, 10:37 PM
Originally posted by chunky:
Alamo have the size car we need. A dodge durango. Also thanks for link skijacski. While I was upset at losing my camera, one good thing about Thrifty LAX was the Dodge Durango we had - very nice! Comfortable, easy to drive and park, big enough for family and also fits lotsa baggage - we had 11 bags. Go the Durango! But get it at Alamo. To compare pricing, we paid $735 AUD for 4 days - that's all the insurances etc and converted from USD etc. Too much I reckon, considering it was supposed to be $65.89 per day. Ha!


Check out these pics - now that's a car!!!!


http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z59/xenamojo/Dodge-Durrango.jpg (http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z59/xenamojo/?action=view&current=Dodge-Durrango.jpg)

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z59/xenamojo/Dodge2.jpg (http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z59/xenamojo/?action=view&current=Dodge2.jpg)

chunky
18-04-2008, 12:19 AM
It says it will fit 8 but I guess you lose your luggage space. Do you know if the back row is split like it is in the Prado?

Vet
18-04-2008, 02:41 AM
Yes the Durango's back seat split so Lil Vet had half the back seat. Nice car.

If I go again on my lonesome, I'll grab the $95 return bus from SF to Tahoe. The inter-resort shuttle service is terrific.

Xena
18-04-2008, 06:39 AM
Same what he said.

Vet
18-04-2008, 08:31 AM
Xena, if Lil Vet was in the backseat, do I know you???? :eek:

skijacski
18-04-2008, 12:04 PM
Holy Dooly! $735 for 4 days! I had a Dodge Durango in SLC for a month and 2 days and it cost $998.00. Obviously hitting the LA only trade.

Xena
18-04-2008, 04:50 PM
Trust me - I was shocked - drove out of there a very unhappy lady. First of all they charged us over $1000 for the 4 days - I complained upon return and got a refund on some mischarges. Not happy with service of Thrifty - car was nice, but $735 is ludicrous. It's the insurances and add ons that get you. We were expecting about $400 for 4 days, as it was $65.89 per day for the car, when advertised. Insane! And to have my camera stoilen by one of the carwashers, was salt in the wound. Never got it back BTW.

chunky
18-04-2008, 07:37 PM
Yeah the extras burnt us on our first trip over there so I am researching it a bit more.

ausi ski bum
26-04-2008, 06:01 PM
I am a fan of Alamo as well, reserving online is easy and you don't pay until you get there. Never assume you will be able to rent a car at a US airport on arrival, often every car is booked out solid.

Vet
26-04-2008, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by skijacski:
Holy Dooly! $735 for 4 days! I had a Dodge Durango in SLC for a month and 2 days and it cost $998.00. Obviously hitting the LA only trade. No, you can't escape them in Nevada either. Online I ordered a Jeep (being the only 4wd I recognised) thru Shifty in Reno for $235 for a week.

On arrival, they realised I clicked an internet thingie 5x. So which colour Jeep did I pick out? Not one. There wasn't a single Jeep in the lot?

So they 'nicely' upgraded me to a Dodge Durango. Phew, they had one of those.

Then the sting: THE total with insurance was$700 or so and the friccking steering wheel was on the wrong side.

chunky
26-04-2008, 07:55 PM
Hopefully you didn't drive on the wrong side either ;)

Xena
26-04-2008, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by Vet:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by skijacski:
Holy Dooly! $735 for 4 days! I had a Dodge Durango in SLC for a month and 2 days and it cost $998.00. Obviously hitting the LA only trade. No, you can't escape them in Nevada either. Online I ordered a Jeep (being the only 4wd I recognised) thru Shifty in Reno for $235 for a week.

On arrival, they realised I clicked an internet thingie 5x. So which colour Jeep did I pick out? Not one. There wasn't a single Jeep in the lot?

So they 'nicely' upgraded me to a Dodge Durango. Phew, they had one of those.

Then the sting: THE total with insurance was$700 or so and the friccking steering wheel was on the wrong side. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah - Shifty 'upgraded' us too. They said 'no extra charge' but charged. I made sure they refunded the overcharges when I got back - after they stole my camera!

Xena
26-04-2008, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by chunky:
Hopefully you didn't drive on the wrong side either ;) Hehe - we did that a few times! It's worst when there are no other cars around, cos you turn a corner and forget! And driveways are always the killer - lucky Americans don't mind the horn. We shoulda carried a "Sorry, bloody Aussie driver" sign to flash!

Vet
28-04-2008, 11:45 AM
Walking across the street is unnerving.

Driving with a cop car following you for 10 miles is too. At Truckee near Squaw was a cross road. Everyone, except those opposite me turning in front of me, stopped, waited, and waited.Then I finally I realised a) everyone assumes you're drunk and b) I had right of way because I'm from Victoria.

kort
28-04-2008, 02:29 PM
We just left LA and we hired a car with Enterprise (http://www.enterprise.com). No complaints at all - the car was cheap ($28/day), clean and their insurance prices are alot cheaper then other car rental places I have used. Plus when I returned the car they drove me back to my "location of choice" - If I hire a car again in the USA I would definately use Enterprise.

chunky
28-04-2008, 09:41 PM
Thanks will have a looksie.

chunky
29-04-2008, 12:01 AM
How much extra a day was insurance?

kort
29-04-2008, 02:06 AM
We paid USD$28 a day for the car (only had it for 2 days so I am guessing you get a better per day rate if you have the car for longer). Our travel insurance covered us if we smashed the car, but we weren't sure if it covered 3rd party (prolly should have looked that up before we hired the car as it might have been even cheaper).

In any event the total cost of the for 2 days was USD$75, so insurance was about USD$11 a day.....dunno if thats super cheap but it was much cheaper then Avis who wanted something like $100 for the 2 days rental (including insurance)

elim
12-05-2008, 01:51 PM
hi all, same topic, do you need to apply for anything to be able to rent and drive a car in LA ?

Some ppl I have talked to say you need international drivers license, others say you don't need anything.

Vet
12-05-2008, 06:13 PM
the international license is 100% needed by hire companies rather than californian highway police. Also the 'licence' tells the AA American Automobile Association's roadside service that you're a member of an auto club like RACV.

kort
12-05-2008, 06:15 PM
I was in the USA for 5 months and I didn't need an international drivers licence to hire a car there.
I just flashed my Gold NSW licence and they were ok with that.
I also bought AAA Membership which is like RACV/NRMA membership - you can get good discounts on stuff as well with your AAA membership.

Mind you I am over 25...I think car rental places have issues for drivers under 25.

BrumbyJack
12-05-2008, 06:23 PM
I've never needed an International Drivers Licence and I've hired cars for 3 trips to the USA.

What I'm curious about, is what happens if I buy a car in Canada???

There must be people on here who have bought, then sold, a car while OS?

I'm curious about, licence (assume Oz is OK) all insurances and "NRMA roadservice" like products???

EDIT: Other option is buy it in a friends name and they can use it when we come back here... then we get back next time etc.

[ 12.05.2008, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: BrumbyJack ]

elim
13-05-2008, 10:16 AM
Thanks all for your help. I've also sent an email to Alamo (recommendation from here) with the same question and their response is below:

*********************************************
Thank you for your email.
Below are Alamo's drivers license requirement policies to rent in the United States and Canada:
* In order to rent an Alamo vehicle, a valid driver's license from the customer's country of residence is required and must be presented at time of rental.
* The driver's license must be valid for the entire rental period.
* International renters must present a valid license from their country of residence. If the driver's license is in a language other than English, an International Driver's Permit is required in conjunction with the country of residence driver's license.
* Customers will not be allowed to rent a vehicle with only an International Driver's Permit.
* Exception - Japanese travelers may use the Japanese Driver's License Translation Service, which replaces the need for an International Driver's Permit.
* No Learner Permits or photocopies are accepted. Temporary driver's licenses are accepted only if for change of residence or replacement of lost or stolen license. If no photo ID, the description on the license must match that of the renter.
* Within the European Union, all drivers must produce a current driver's license from the county of residence that has been valid for the last 12 months. An international driver's permit is only accepted together with a valid driver's license from the country of residence.
If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to email us or contact our reservations department at 1-800-GO-ALAMO (1-800-462-5266). For customers outside the U.S. and Canada, please dial +1-801-533-4441.
Regards,
Emma
Internet Response
Alamo Rent A Car
*********************************************

AndDee
14-05-2008, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Vet:
the international license is 100% needed by hire companies rather than californian highway police. Also the 'licence' tells the AA American Automobile Association's roadside service that you're a member of an auto club like RACV. You do NOT need an international licence for USA or Canada!

I always rent with Hertz, never the cheapest, but always the best service for me. Constant upgrades to better cars and my car is always there with my name on it.

Vet
15-05-2008, 07:17 PM
Anyone got any tips on insurance for a trip in the Lake Tahoe California/Nevada area.

Is it cheaper thru the car hire company for 2 weeks or is it $x per day.

Is it worth the extra to get 'no excess payable". After all, we're on the wrong side of the road.

Can you rely on travel insurance alone and if so which Travel Insurance best covers ski injuries, injuries to passengers in the car, car damage, damage to the other car, and injury to bystanders.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Cheers

kort
16-05-2008, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Vet:

Is it cheaper thru the car hire company for 2 weeks or is it $x per day.

Is it worth the extra to get 'no excess payable". After all, we're on the wrong side of the road.

Can you rely on travel insurance alone and if so which Travel Insurance best covers ski injuries, injuries to passengers in the car, car damage, damage to the other car, and injury to bystanders.
We used snowinsurance.com.au as our travel insurance for our 5 month trip to the USA. The insurance included something like $6000 excess for any hire car (ie they will pay up to $6000 excess if we did have a car crash).

Hire companies tend to charge quite alot of money for the "no excess" option. Suggest you read your travel insurance details very carefully.

Vet
17-05-2008, 07:32 AM
thank you thank you thank you.

Vet
17-05-2008, 07:34 AM
Hey Taxi, did you see this???

Xena
27-05-2008, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by AndDee:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Vet:
the international license is 100% needed by hire companies rather than californian highway police. Also the 'licence' tells the AA American Automobile Association's roadside service that you're a member of an auto club like RACV. You do NOT need an international licence for USA or Canada!

I always rent with Hertz, never the cheapest, but always the best service for me. Constant upgrades to better cars and my car is always there with my name on it. </font>[/QUOTE]Agree - +1 and I bought international licenses for USA and Canada this year - did not need them - a normal license would have sufficed. I have read it in Australian travel guidelines too - not compulsory for USA and Canada.

chunky
03-08-2008, 03:27 PM
Ok I have found a 4wd that will fit my family of 6. A Ford Expedition - never heard of it but I gather it is a bigger version of an Explorer like the Prado v Landcruiser.

Skichic have a look here and see if this helps you too.

http://www.driveaway.com.au/

[ 03.08.2008, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: chunky ]

Vet
03-08-2008, 04:43 PM
my dummy run got a Jeep Grand Cherokee for $1,086 for 14 days. Is that good?

skijacski
03-08-2008, 05:12 PM
'chokingonbreathbeingtakenaway'

Vet, no that is terrible!!!!

I pay that for nearly 6 weeks in the USA!

Hold on and I will find a link for you.

skichic
03-08-2008, 05:18 PM
*taps fingers and waits for jackski*

skijacski
03-08-2008, 05:22 PM
I use this site to find any USA hire cars.

I rent in Salt Lake City for 6 weeks a Hummer H3 or similar, but the Grand Cherokee is the same price as yours for 2 weeks.

http://www.carrentalexpress.com/rate-search?action=show_results

So a Toyota Highlander is about $510 for two weeks.

skichic
03-08-2008, 05:41 PM
can't find any cars in Denver though :(

Vet
03-08-2008, 05:54 PM
I get $US628 and $US638 for 15 - 28 Feb 09 from San Fransico airport for a RAV 4 and a Toyota Highlander or similar, with unlimited miles. graemlins/woohoo.gif

Must read the travel insurance. I know it covers a $3,000 excess if thiscar is bingled, but must check if it covers the Rolls Royce and the Roll's driver.

[ 03.08.2008, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: Vet ]

skichic
03-08-2008, 06:05 PM
why don't they have any cars in Denver then? :confused:

skijacski
03-08-2008, 06:16 PM
I do a google search using words, cheap car rental to find the links. Hold on and I will look for you.

skijacski
03-08-2008, 06:20 PM
Ok here it is.

http://www.acerentacar.com/landing/lp_deno01.aspx

If a car does not come up - spend the time to ring them and ask for other companies.

This is Denver Airport but there is another in Denver.

skijacski
03-08-2008, 06:21 PM
Ok, I am search for others.

skijacski
03-08-2008, 06:24 PM
Hmmmm, engine is not picking up what I want, you will have to wait. I will come back to it.

skichic
03-08-2008, 06:29 PM
nup says it's all sold out. weird this far out :confused:

Vet
03-08-2008, 06:31 PM
I got the same for the LA trip on carentalexpress.com!!!!

Hey skijackski, you know heaps more than my lawyer in LA.
__________________________________________________ __
I'm Maria, Dan's assistant. Dan asked me to help him out with your
request for transportation from L.A. to Lake Tahoe. So I did some
research ... looks like the best
way to travel (if not flying there) would be to go by Greyhound Bus.

Or maybe he hates me coz that boomerang I gave him didn't come back.

Vet
03-08-2008, 06:42 PM
I googled toyota highlander specifications, and does this mean 4WD or AWD?


Transmission -- Gasoline models
5-speed electronically controlled automatic overdrive transmission with intelligence (ECT-i), sequential shift and Snow Mode standard
Transmission -- Hybrid models
Electronically controlled continuously variable transmission (ECVT) with ECON mode not available

chunky
03-08-2008, 07:02 PM
I can't get a car that holds 6 in the 4wd through your site skijacski :(

chunky
03-08-2008, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Vet:
I googled toyota highlander specifications, and does this mean 4WD or AWD?


Transmission -- Gasoline models
5-speed electronically controlled automatic overdrive transmission with intelligence (ECT-i), sequential shift and Snow Mode standard
Transmission -- Hybrid models
Electronically controlled continuously variable transmission (ECVT) with ECON mode not available The Highlander I believe is what we call the Kluger here so probably AWD.

Vet
03-08-2008, 07:13 PM
Taxman, I got something for $1300 per month


Ferrari : 360
View larger picture


Current bid: US $99,000.00
Reserve not met

Your maximum bid:
US $
Place Bid
(Enter US $99,100.00 or more)

Get low monthly payments
End time: 11 hours 33 mins (Aug-03-08 13:41:06 PDT)
Shipping:
To Australia -- Not specified
Sells to: United States

skijacski
03-08-2008, 07:51 PM
Sometimes you are best to call direct to the company and ask them, that is the cheap ones at least.

See what they have available.

Also, not many cars carry 6 adults, usually 5.

You might need to look at a Chryslar Pacifica which is an AWD and carries 6 persons.

skijacski
03-08-2008, 07:55 PM
Oh I also forgot to mention that some companies have cars that are one way trips which end up in another state etc.

Ring them and find out if they have a car at your point of start and needs to come back to them. so SLC to LA or v.v.

Google backpacker websites like the ones in Australia. There is a whole lot of info on cheaper ways of doing things.

My cousin in Holland was in Australia for a year, but he took a RV from Darwin to Cairns free of charge, he only needed to have it there in 1 month, and pay the insurance which was $300 and fuel.

Luxury for him.

No more ideas, too tired.

Vet
28-08-2008, 05:21 PM
Hotwire.com has some deal from $13.95 per day and 'no hidden fees' on at the moment. I haven't looked into it.

chunky
26-09-2008, 08:22 AM
Booked a Ford Expedition. They look like a big car.

Altheau
02-10-2008, 09:13 AM
who did you book the ford with Chunky?

Vet
02-10-2008, 09:31 AM
got an email from thrifty in the USA - a 50th anniversary special with amex for a mid sized suv at $249US a week. If anyone's interested, pm me and I'll forward it to you or try thriftycarrental@email.thrifty.com.

Altheau
02-10-2008, 12:03 PM
Anyone found a rental place that allows snow chains? I don't think any of them in America seem to, must be an insurance thing?

Vet
02-10-2008, 03:31 PM
In Reno in Jan this year, Thrifty offered snowchains at $15 per day but said they needed pre-ordering. Well I had. Indeed they had me down as ordering a Jeeps, 5 times, but didn't have any of those either.

I was told any damage the chains caused wouldn't come out of their (over priced) insurance. I didn't bother with chains because locals said 4x4s don't need them (but when it dumps, it dumps). I was ok in the snow but there were really serious prangs - one 4x4 in a multi car pile up hit, at probably 60kmh, an embankment and blood was pouring down the outside of the driver's door. But the yokels don't worry about chains, unless the cops ask for them.

Incidentally the cops are apparently more rigourous in the slopes 1 to 2 hours from Los Angelese like Big Bear Lake and Mountain High.

Hope that helps. Of course other places will be different.

Altheau
02-10-2008, 04:08 PM
Thanks Vet =]

I am more worried about the implications of where you would stand if you where in an accident and had chains on which are prohibited even though they did not cause the accident or any damage to the car

As i understand it Hertz in Australia will give you chains and says the same as thrifty, if you put them on wrong and damage the car, your problem. But Hertz and Alamo prohibit the use of chains on their cars and I am pretty sure that Dollar prohibit thier use in Utah, Colorado, and Canada

I am sure that most times you would not need them, and if it happened that a storm hit where we might need them we could wait it out or go around, but it would be nice to find someone that did allow them in utah, colorado and canada, I think I am living a pipe dream though ;p

Altheau
02-10-2008, 04:08 PM
I'm a dork, sorry for the double post

[ 02.10.2008, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Altheau ]

skijacski
02-10-2008, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by Altheau:
Anyone found a rental place that allows snow chains? I don't think any of them in America seem to, must be an insurance thing? None do, you have to move to a 4x4 which has the heavy duty tires. I use Rugged Rentals in SLC Utah and they are great. Half the price of Avis, Hertz etc.

Most people in cold climates have two types of tires, snow and summer. The cars come with all weather tires, but they are not suitable for snow. Police will turn you back if you don't have chains on a car, but not if you have a 4x4.

chunky
03-10-2008, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by Altheau:
who did you book the ford with Chunky? Through flight centre who booked with www.driveaway.com. (http://www.driveaway.com.)

chunky
11-10-2008, 01:04 PM
Well car hire is going up. My car hire if not paid in full by wednesday will be $600 more. I would have normally had until Dec to pay it.

Vet
01-11-2008, 06:31 PM
Driveaway Holidays International take $AUD


from $43 a day - Australian $ - for 7 days in the US. Below is from their home page today:


Country Bookings Starting at:
UK France Ireland NZ USA Canada Australia
Economy $54 $57 $31 $39 $43 $59 $46
Compact $70 $65 $34 $47 $46 $62 $50
Intermediate $82 $80 $48 $59 $50 $71 $54
Full Size $139 $105 $121 $71 $55 $78 $75
Taxes & additional surcharges may apply.
Car rental rates shown are in AUD per day based on 7 days.
Economy
Compact
Intermediate
Full Size NO
Booking Fees*
Amendment Fees*
Cancellation Fees*
*Conditions apply GPS Rental
DriveAway Holidays
offers premium GPS
rental to help you
get where you want to go.

Packages & Travel Services
Peruse our extensive range of products and put together your perfect self-drive holiday. In addition to car rental, we offer
Motorhome Rental in Europe, USA, Canada, Australia & New Zealand.
Discover one of our self drive itineraries.
Stopover packages in Singapore, Hong Kong or Dubai.

Vet
15-01-2009, 08:32 AM
Just refreshing this thread. Taxi, V and I are looking for something like a Toyato Highlander(aka Kluge) in mid-Feb for a few weeks from San Fran to Tahoe and then around California. Anyone got any great deals or suggestions?

Paul Oberin
15-01-2009, 09:05 AM
http://www.vroomvroomvroom.com.au/

Vet
15-01-2009, 03:56 PM
A warning from vroomvroom

* Please be aware.
If you purchase travel insurance before traveling to the US please take your time to read the fine print. Travel insurance usually refers to the excess of a rental car and not the car insurance itself. This means you may need to purchase insurance in order to have an excess level. Otherwise your rental will not have any excess limit which would deem your travel insurance worthless. !!!!!!!!

Types of Car Rental Insurances

(may differ from supplier to supplier)


CDW (collision damage waiver) and LDW (loss damage waiver).
This relieves you of financial responsibility for a rental vehicle damaged by an accident, vandalism or theft. It usually costs between $9 and $20 per day. Note: Although the sale of CDW was formerly prohibited in New York state, recent legislative changes now allow it.

SLI (supplemental liability insurance).
This provides excess liability coverage up to $1 million. It usually costs between $7 and $9 per day.

PAI (personal accident insurance).
This covers you and all passengers in your vehicle for any medical expenses. It's not necessary for most renters already covered by personal health policies or travel policies. It usually costs between $3 and $5 per day.

PEC (personal effects coverage).
This provides coverage for theft of or damage to personal items inside the rental car. Again, it replicates coverage already provided to many renters through their own insurance policies. It usually costs between $2 and $5 per day.

Car rental companies often make these options even more confusing by combining two or more into insurance packages. You could evaluate each product separately.

Vet
15-01-2009, 03:59 PM
That 'fine print' is shifty. There was a time when inssurance was illegal - it was treated by judges as a gambling contract. Looks like nothing much has changed in 200 years.

Podlettte
15-01-2009, 04:15 PM
well no, I couldn't find a single travel insurance policy that covered the stupid US rental vehicle insurances. So of course you need to take them out. We've been through it, and took out the LDW/CDW and SLI. the rest is covered by our individual travel insurances

Podlettte
15-01-2009, 04:15 PM
oh and we ended up going with budget out of SFO as alamo ran out of Dodge Durango's!

Sailor
15-01-2009, 06:02 PM
Booked a car thru National Rentals.
When you click on the section that asks where you live, it auto defaults to AUD and the rental plan defaults to one where all insurances are included
We are going from SFO and dropping the car in YVR so there is a $A199 "drop fee"

chunky
15-01-2009, 09:00 PM
That's probably not too bad considering the distance for that fee.

Sailor
15-01-2009, 09:57 PM
Yeah I thought so.
Hertz wanted $US300 for the same and nearly twice the rental cost without insurances!!!

Podlettte
15-01-2009, 11:27 PM
I looked at national rentals however, they didn't have the type of SUV we need

$199 is a good fee, just about everyone else charges $300

Vet
18-01-2009, 07:24 AM
An aussie working at Tahoe Dave's Ski Hire bought a car for $1k. I wonder if e-bay motors is the answer ;)

JohnPhillips
08-02-2012, 10:54 PM
Good informative post you have shared. I was looking for it.Awesome.You have updated on a relevant matter.

chunky
09-02-2012, 07:57 PM
Driveaway still have a great selection and their earlybirds are usually around this tim of year with all the travel expos about to kick off in the eastern capitals. And if you are lucky you may get an upgrade when you get there.